http://www.brainsturbator.com/site/comments/colonia_dignidad_welcome_to_hell/

Peter Levenda’s description of his visit to the colony (AKA the happiest place on earth) in Unholy Alliance was pretty cool. I bet he shit his pants when the old man himself showed up.

There was also some very interesting speculation that they were aware of his impending trip to Chile because Levenda had mentioned it to an American neo-Nazi. I had been under the impression that these groups were useful idiots following guidelines placed down for them by the Nazis, but not actually in contact with real Nazis-in-exile. Who knows… However I’m very interested to read some books on the topic now.

By the way, you hit gold with this article and the Finders piece. Man, fucking Patch Adams? What the hell.

Yeah, Patch Adams was a truly weird capstone.

And hot damn, I really need to get ahold of those Levanda books, there must be so much damn information in there relating to the kind of things that cost me sleep....very nescessary.

I don’t believe it. A collection of cliches - it rings bells like a herd of Jerseys. I It is a Spielberg script. Generally any story so cliched it’s a cheap b movie should ring alarms somewhere. But it feels good in a strange way, it’s like being a kid and playing cowboys and indians again. This is a great one for round the campfire. One can really imagine the horror of being tortured in that underground lair - by torturers so expert they are actually contracted by the state - to do what? to gain confessions from unionists? leftists? spies? political opponents? And for what purpose? Probably because it’s just thier nature....Well at least in their twisted little minds it all made sense....somehow. I guess they did it to augment their income from the sausages and bee keeping.

The fact that ones intelligence should be insulted.... doesn’t register - because this is real horror… thriller....you drop your soda and your hotdog.... this is real MaryLou!… And it’s no surprise either....we’ve suspected this for a long time...the same thing with those ‘A’y-rabs. Probably Ay-rabs round there too. But it’s hard to tell cuz they all look the same basically.

The 21st century is similar culturally to the late 50’s, early 60’s - except in reverse - except that it’s exactly the same thing. I take some hope in the idea that this isn’t going to go on and on and on. At some point it’s got to come crashing down. But some times i doubt the outcome - people seem so totally owned.

Are you seriously saying you don’t believe the events outlined in this article happened?

The 21st century is similar culturally to the late 50’s, early 60’s - except in reverse - except that it’s exactly the same thing.

cool response

Seriously. No I don’t believe it. This has the classic cues of the self sustaining construct. It is true I can’t know at all the facts - nothing - except what I have read in the media, and i’ve skimmed this story before - I do know the ‘media’ is the biggest liar in existence. The amount it lies is only governed by what it can get away with. Here i estimate a 90 % window of opportunity. The setup in this case is perfect. This has every ingredient of a manufactured ‘public interest’ story. A story like this was implied even before it existed.

Pedophiliacs, Nazis, Torture Chambers, One of the richest estates in the country, collusion with a deposed government, Blondes, German Shepherds, Missing American hikers, Machine Guns, WatchTowers . It’s almost a B-movie tone poem.  Who is going to defend this guy or these people? NO ONE. There is going to be no rational investigation into this matter - not by the BBC, not by Newsweek, not the German Government - certainly not the Chilean Government - and certainly not by YOU....the alternative truth seeker. And count out James Bond.  This is altogether too much what we want to believe - more than that, as is, it’s what we need. This is useful stuff. Almost everyone, from where ever you are, is satisfied. Public Edu-tainment has similar goals.

Am I defending this guy? No, i don’t know anything outside of what I have read in the media. I have travelled and worked a short time in Chile and I do know the country, the people, the women, intoxicants and politics of the early 80’s to the degree possible. Am i suggesting an alternate possibility? I could, any rational person should be able to - but I won’t waste my time - the only facts we have are what we get from the media - the rest is conjecture and hypothesis.
So why am i saying this is all bullshit? Look at the media track-record...if i need to say more - then that more would be wasted effort. Do you think they tell the truth on the stories you like, and lie on the ones you don’t like? No, the answer is they lie whenever they get the chance - every single time. The structure is set up that way to be self sustaining. - they don’t even have to try. Everything was taken care of, before hand.

Well.

Thanks for explaining.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valech_Report

This is altogether too much what we want to believe - more than that, as is, it’s what we need. This is useful stuff. Almost everyone, from where ever you are, is satisfied. Public Edu-tainment has similar goals.

That angle to it would seem a lot more likely if this was a well-known thing in deep politics. As it stands, this is quite an obscure topic to the average conspiracy clown and even some more dedicated researchers have barely heard of it. Sure, the media lies about lots of stuff. And yeah, the victims could be paid to say their piece, and the reports of events fabricated. But the question at that point would be: what are you willing to consider, then? A gut feeling for disinformation is a good instinct to cultivate, but in this case it is just absurd to assert it.

Oh, and for the record: I am not satisfied at all.

Am i suggesting an alternate possibility? I could, any rational person should be able to - but I won’t waste my time

It’s not a waste, let’s hear it.

Allright Cap, i’ll dissect what I can, but a worthy exploration would take considerable research of the documentation available. I just don’t have time, especially considering most documentation is of the tabloid variety, and would have to be scanned for sources, contacting the various authors, research, etc.

Here are some good links:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/schafer/schafer2.html

and a compendium - all damning :

http://www.rickross.com/groups/schafer.html

You’ll note the only words of defense in this entire compendium that I have been able to find so far:

“But Otto Dörr Zegers, a prominent psychiatrist in Santiago who has served on the board of the Colonia Dignidad hospital, continues to defend the sect. He said the group had been the victim of “unjust attacks and treatment” that were part of “a curious hatred campaign” organized by the Chilean government.
“I know them, and they are well-intentioned people,” Dr. Dörr said. “Their ideology is a little bit old-fashioned, like that of the Mennonites who went to the United States, but nothing justifies the coordinated, synchronized lies and distortions that have been invented about them.”

What set me off was the entire witch-hunt calibre tone of the articles. Nazis are the favorite bete noir of anglo american society. There is nothing too lurid or excessive to accuse them of - one feels an almost atmospheric pressure to go as far and as deep as possible in off the wall claims...and no defense is allowed or tolerated - extreme prejudice and unbelievable excess welcomed and encouraged.

To start this guy was a medic and corporal in the Luftwaffle. Contrary to reality - it is close to insane to suggest he became an international level interrogator so skilled in torture he was contracted for that purpose by the Pinnochet regime...’a skill acquired as a medic in the Luftwaffle’. Anyone who states he aquired the skill to torture but keep alive for months or weeks prisoners, as a Luftwaffle medic… an accomplishment Pinnochets thugs couldn’t manage and had to contract out...is an idiot. Of course it is possible to say that he hired nazi death camp doctor friends of his - or that germans have a hereditary talent - whatever - once more we rely on our hollywood training for clues to the mystery.
My observation is that this and other inferences discredits the claim. (not that it refutes it entirely). Also Chile is reported to have entirely credible secret torture centers..namely prison facilities like Villa Grimaldi, Chacabuco, and Pisagua.

As for the statements of victims - these are serious and should be taken seriously. Seriously does not mean we fall down on our knees and worship them as plaster saints. The fact that the Colonia Dignidad was a rich or the richest enclave in Chile, even of all of South America..and in probable collusion to some degree with the Pinnochet regime - has to be taken into account. Pinnochet’s regime could count a sizable part of the population as enemies. The idea that they wouldn’t wish to destroy former opponents and appropriate any wealth is ridiculous. Fabricating crimes for former opponents is a mainline, common standard Left or Left of center tactic...as common as the simply killing or imprisoning without charge of former opponents is for the Right. Stating this does not discredit the charges against the regime, or invalidate the claims of the victims - but due process requires a degree of reserve in light of the normal processes of regime change.

As thirtysevens link to the Valech report shows - victims were given pensions and state aid on the strength of collaborated evidence that they had been victimized, some at Colonia Dignidad. The rigor of the collaborated evidence under juriprudence is unclear. But even in my country, (Canada) monetary gain for charges of victimization leads to wholesale fraud - especially when it’s someones politcal requirement. The conservative reactionary right gave up power due to plebiscite, and could return to power in the same manner. This is politics.

And there was the purported wealth of Colonia Dignidad. You may disagree and hold the status of the victims as sancrosanct. I might have had at one time also, experience has shown me this is not the case. Thus my suspicion when victims are given monetary rewards for accusations in this case. This requires vigilance, I see none. Further when the claims take on the aura of a Saturday night B movie.
The entire absence of due and called-for skepticism in any reports on Colonia Dignidad, - is a strong indication that something is not right - and most people sense it and wish it buried less they tarnish the wonderful ‘established’ facts...which as they stand are quite tremendous.

As for the paedophilia...This is something that has to be researched. However it is my observation that charges of paedophilia are the catch-all adjustable wrench and hammer of this societies equivalent to the moscow showtrials. It is a signal that the charged is not to be defended, and is to skinned alive and burned at the stake at all costs. This and inferences that Shafer stole children from Germany and turned them into an army of nazi clone-stooges - merits strong reserve to put it extremely lightly.
All charges against Shafer and Colonia Dignidad could well be true. But no matter how somber and official the Valech report reads, with it’s bishops and human right societies and agencies...there is no rebuttal or defense or mitigation whatsoever. The whole thing stinks of vested interest.

There are many, many agencies, outside of ourselves, (example the article that caused this post, this post, example the CIA, example Hollywood, etc.) that steer outcomes, you could say on the periphery, towards the goal of creating a ambiance of self referential concurrance. Everyone seems to be excused from conducting psych-ops - the idea is ‘hey everyone else is doing it...’. No one really cares what the truth is anymore, what the documents infer as opposed to what use the document could be turned to. When we are encouraged to give up our objectivity on any case, we give it up on all.

The charges against Colonia Dignidad may be true, or true to some part, or false and just revenge and a grab for the wealth of the colony. Putting the facts of the case aside for a moment ... the over-the-top luridness of the account - without mitigation, circumspection or any vigilance whatsoever should be a key indicator this has to be looked at closer than it has - otherwise it is just entertainment.
As an observer - I’d bet large this is bullshit. I have no time to properly investigate this matter - and I recognize that despite my skepticism the charges may be wholly or partly true. For different people different thresholds of belief apply. I don’t ‘believe’ in belief or disbelief, i know something or I don’t, i think something is true or I don’t...but the fact I don’t know is not discounted. And without knowing the reality of the case all i see here are lurid charges without defense by obvious vested interests and no consideration of that fact. More than that - this account is total hollywood.
And that is my contribution to the brain food potluck.

As for the torture expertise, the claim is that Shaefer brought in expertise, not that torture tactics were part of basic training in the german air force.

As for the pedophilia, that’s why Shaefer left Germany in the first place—molesting kids placed in his care, a number of whom wound up leaving the country with him.

As for the “entirely credible secret torture centers..namely prison facilities like Villa Grimaldi, Chacabuco, and Pisagua”—what separates those torture centers from Colonia Dignidad?

So the inference that Shafer was a medic in the Luftwaflle, pace he was a nazi, pace he paedophile, pace he was an expert torturer, pace he is thus automatically guilty of any charge leveled against him....thats just for the masses?

Upon scrutiny, we find ‘he brought in expertise’. Well then, thats cleared up.

Why do articles like this continually require one to suspend disbelief?
In the same fashion of most of television and Hollywood? A string of closed circuit keywords that upon inspection, are shocking and ugly and only lead further into the looking glass.

As for paedophilia, why isn’t Germany asking for his extradition on these charges?
There are no time limitations on capital crimes in Europe. Like this article, one is guilty until proven innocent.

As for what separates Colonia Dignidad from the latterly mentioned prisons. The latter are ‘prisons’ - and the former is a ‘wealthy colony and hospital run mostly by suspicious and furtive immigrants with harsh accents’.

This should be obvious. What is with this ‘dreamland’ style reasoning?

I am assuming that facts on public record are indeed facts.  I apologize for being so naive.

Have you ever been in the clutches of the state? Have you ever experienced it’s reasoning from the receiving end? I’m speaking when your someone in the out’s - you either have no money - against someone with unlimited funds - or you are a disfavored party for some reason - and the other party is in the loop. Or perhaps you are useful to demonstrate a time-honoured principal - for the public record.

The public record? ---- Are you kidding me? Thats proof of what? Who’s lies are the favourites? The public record is merely a record of who’s up and who’s down.

Naive? How about you find the gruesome prurience juicy? No need of impartiality there - gets in the way of a gaudy show. This guy could just be some industrious farmer - believe it - he could be totally innocent - if you have any inkling of how the world really works - he could be totally innocent - EASILY.

Thats the thing about the public record. How do you expect it to be impartial and diligent - if you can’t make the effort yourself?

Sorry if I seem severe. Its actually quite ridiculous - defending Paul Shafer and ‘Colonia Dignidad’.  I can’t really do that as facts I don’t have, all I can see the story itself smells, I’ve seen this type of thing before and as I said my bet is it’s a pile..It could just be seized upon for it’s purience. The truth of the matter will probably not come out, as who would touch this with a ten foot pole? Other than the psychiatrist mentioned above.
It’s the principal of impartiality...there is none. How about for Brainfood studying Aristotle’s treatise on fallacy...or something about Justice? That might be instructive.